PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMITTEE
March 7, 2000
Assembly Chambers Ė City Hall
- ROLL Called
Meeting was called to order at 6:00pm
Members Present: Alex Lukshin, Jeff Wilson, Jim King, Joane-Herbage
OíKeefe, Lynn Bartlett, and Jim Preston
Jim Preston was introduced as the new committee member. He resides in the
Auke Bay area, has been a resident of Alaska since grade school and has been
in Juneau for the last 16 years. He is a retired school teach, very active
with the Glacier Swim Club and is President of the Charter Boat
Staff Present: Kim Kiefer, P&R Director, Cristi Herren, Rec. Supt, Bob
Grochow, Parks and Landcape Supt, Mary Pat Wyatt, Curator and Judy Nobles,
PUBLIC TESTIMONY ON NON-AGENDA ITEMS
APPROVAL OF AGENDA
APPROVAL OF MEETING MINUTES
Joan requested a small modification be made on Page 4 and Alexís asked that
his name be corrected . Joan made motion with these modifications made, the
minutes be approved. No objections, minutes unanimously approved. (Changes were
also made to correct Joan Herbage-Oíkeefe in the roll call and Mary Pat Wyatt,
V. ACTION ITEMS
- Museum Board
- At the last meeting we talked about reconsidering a board for the museum.
In October 1999 our staff presented a plan for the Historical Resources
Advisory Committee to serve as an Advisory Committee for the Juneau Douglas
City Museum. We have a number of boards that give direction and provide
recommendations to staff on how to operate besides PRAC. Two of
the last three surveys said we should have a special committee to the
museum. Kim gave a brief summary of boards serving Parks and
Cathryn Colin, Chair of Historical Resources Advisory Committee:
- I will be happy to answer any questions you may have. We would be pleased
to accept responsibility.
Ken Garue, Curator of Alaska State Museum:
Discussion ensued why the board wasnít approved in October. At that time
it was unsure of how utilized it would be for the amount of expertise they
had. The advantages of having this board, serve as the museumís board, would
be their expertise. They are official but donít have the official duty of the
museum. There is already a committee in place and they wouldnít have to be put
into place. They donít have a lot of other duties and would meet once month
for one or two hours. The PRAC asked to see the minutes from these meetings.
All agreed it made sense to use this board.
- I am very willing to work with you. There might be an occasional conflict
but we could work around that.
- I donít understand why this wasnít passed in October.
- In the previous meetings there were members that felt the current PRAC
board was enough to deal with the City Museum. The feeling was there we
werenít quite ready to let-go. I voted for it but there wasnít a
- Kim, this wouldnít diminish our role would it?
- No, but I didnít make it clear at that time that PRAC is not the only
advisory committee. I see this committee serving a very focused
Jeff Wilson made the motion that PRAC ask The Historical Resources Advisory
Board serve as a Board to the City Museum. Seconded
Was unanimously approved.
During this discussion several young people came in. Kim told the PRAC she
thought she knew why they were there and suggested they be heard before it got
Chicken Yard Park:
Wilna Moen Ė 513 East St
- We are here for a couple of reasons. We heard rumor that changes were
going to be made to the park and although we agree to some, there are others
we donít agree with. We have yet to see the big picture. Ms Moen drew a
demonstration on the board and most of her concern was with the drainage ditch
being put in with bark as a fill. The problem with the present plans as she
sees it is that would make the park a real nice playground for 3 to 5 yr olds
but the ages that actually use the park are the 9 to 15 year olds. This park
is where children play by themselves and for the most part exclusively used by
children. We arenít so thrilled that someone wants to fix our park up where we
canít use it like we have for used it for years. We could use things like a
new basketball hoop, ours had no net. All of the balls go over the fence
because the fence is bent. We would like to see the fence raised 6 feet so the
balls would quit going over the fence and hitting the Greeleys house. We
are all in favor of drainage e system that would actually increase the use
of park allowing the kids to use later in the summer You could even put sand
in there, have the do the whole park be sand.
- I play kickball and soccer in the Chicken Yard Park. I would like to see
the fence fixed and raised
- I use the park for soccer, kickball and if you put bark in there when
someone falls down they will get all these slivers in their legs and it hurts.
Sam Greeley: Ė 529 East Street, 9 years old
- I usually play kickball and soccer in the park. I would like to have the
fence raised. My dad would like a new basketball hoop. We need a new one, the
one there is rusty.
- The grass is gross. There is dog poop in there all the time. You could
reseed in there. Have you seen those basketball hoop returns they have at Fred
Meyers? You just pull this clip back and it returns the ball to you. That
would be good there.
- What are we doing there Bob?
- This whole issue came up because of safety issued. We came to the
conclusion it wasnít safe. We looked at several options. It was our
intention if we kept the swing set there we would surface it with clear
board. This discussion is leading to other options. This structure went in
there about ten years ago. The desire was to have play opportunities for
younger kids. Basketball, kickball etc: It has worked well over the years.
It was asked if there were any neighborhood meetings?
- One, but it was our plan now to have another meeting. We need to have one
- Do we have any demographics?
- Children use the climbing structure as a pretend place. A lot of it is
just running around. They use the swings. It was put in there originally with
the understanding there was sand under there. It is not a hard packed surface.
All the kids, even the cats use it. They were supposed to put new sand in
there. We kept calling every year but they never did. We havenít had any new
sand in ten years. Another reason I am leery about this
- Sand was put in there but when you put sand down on hard surface, it
automatically deep packs it. Mostly they just fill in under the
- if you put bark in place of the sand and we didnít like it, we might make
an effort to make sure it didnít stay there.
- Do we have the money to do something?
There is money to address the safety issues only. The safety zone around the
swing is a big one. There are code issues that require safety.
There was additional discussion about having another meeting with the
neighborhood. There isnít money to have it all done but to see what can be
Alex Lukshin asked if the swings are safe?
- The swings have to be replaced. Jamie Sarzinski was the one working with
- The swings do not meet standards. They have to be replaced or we have to
remove them completely. The play structure meets standards but we have to do
something. Sand was thought to have been in place but it never was put to the
recommended depth. If we do anything else, we have to put in border and maybe
pea gravel or go with a completely different type of surfacing. We cannot
leave it the way it is.
- Do we have funds to deal with the drainage and swings?
- I think we can replace the backboard goal out of the general operating
- We cannot get the backboard with the hoops that matches. It is no longer
available. This is why it hasnít been replaced.
Sam: Yeah, a lot of people from the charter school use it and they like to
use the swings. If you take out the swings they arenít going to have any
- WE have to replace the swings or change the looks.
- Could the fence be a part of the safety factor? The balls go all over and
the kids tear through there. It isnít a big deal but we do have a big tree
there. I would prefer not to have a bunch of kids tearing through there. The
fence is old. There might be a way to replace it. I think there should be
another meeting. I never heard about the one they had.
- The fence could be considered a safety factor. I know of two balls that
have gone over the fence and broken the same window.
- Could we just replace the swings and have something to sit on?
- It is time to close public comments. Thank you.
- We need to advertise the next meeting and get numbers, is that possible
Kim Kiefer asked Jamie to about a tentative time. Jamie responded the last
meeting was in the Crondahl house.
There was a brief discussion on where to have it.
Alex Lukshin: Lets go to the next item.
Discussion started regarding the letter generated at the request of the chair
to the Public Policy Committee concerning the tax money to be spread out to the
Parks and Recreation Dept. for our needs.
- I handed out another letter, the one in your packet was the changed
version. Please look at them together.
Extensive discussion ensued regarding the letter to be sent to the Public
Policy Committee. Alex Lukshin discussed the fact the City Attorney had already
gone ahead with the ordinance. Lynn Bartlett agreed with Jim King? that P&R
should fall under CIP but felt being listed separately would lend us
credibility. Lynn is totally against. Jeff Wilson suggested we could use the
money for fixing up Marine Park and even repairing the shelters.
- I think we can get money but I think we are going to have to fight for
every bit. Do we know if the Assembly has appointed the committee
- The letter should reflect strongly and diplomatically, we need a chair
because we are impacted in all areas.
- Did this come to our attention? I think we should re-open this and
consider the public hasnít been able to comment on this thing.
Ken Dean and I went over thislist of things and we didnít thin the Assembly
would give us all the money but we thought as advocates of the Parks and
Recreation department we should make a statement. We felt this is where the
money should go. We discussed a professorship at the University for researching
and planning how little communities like ours can accommodate these things
without losing what we have. We wanted it all and we wanted some of that money
to go to the University to have a permanent professorship. A plus thing for
Juneau. We need something that will work well with other Communities. A way to
research tourism in other coastal communities.
- I think by looking at the ordinance it is going to be difficult to go back
and get them to reconsider. "Connect waterfront to prmondate" to me that is a
classic one. There are items we can make fit into different categories. It
wouldnít be too difficult to make it fall under one of these six categories
they have given us.
- Take the list and fit things under that. We can request but we arenít
going to get it. It is best to encourage a good working relationship. It would
serve us better to foster a good strong support of the Recreation Chair. The
professorship is definitely needed.
- Kim, is it appropriate for or the Board to make a motion to pick this
group. Would it be appropriate for the board to make a recommendation? The
PRAC would make a case they represent the public. Make a motion that the Board
supports Kim to deliver a message to the Assembly.
- I would recommend the PRAC send the letter. It is important it be a PRAC
letter, not a staff letter. We need to formalize this letter, not wait a month
but do it soon.
- Do we need to decide which version? We want a PRAC member on this board.
- It seems to me we can go to the Assembly and tell them what we think. The
letter needs to be a one paragraph letter saying we recommend a PRAC member be
on that committee. Then we can spend more time on the other letter.
- I agree with Jeff. I recall very clearly about this when it was in the
paper. Surprised it didnít come through the committee. Maybe it was an
There was discussion whether the PRAC should go after one of the general
public seats and the competition involved with doing that.
- Maybe the best way is to go to the Harbors Board. They can make two
- All of us are fairly well connected. We all know folks who donít serve on
this committee. WE can get someone sympathetic to our issues. Letís go put the
PRAC forward and just in case, letís get someone sympathetic to us.
- Harbor can nominate two of their own members. That leaves only two more
members. You are right, we would have to go to the general public. Does anyone
want to be nominated?
There was discussion who would be a good selection from the PRAC for the
Public Policy Committee.
- I have concerns with Alex being able to do it. He is serving on the YAB
and cannot walk away from that for the next two months. It is criticle that we
get someone who can be there for every meeting. Opportunities go out the
window with absence.
- We need two letters separating the issues. One to put forth a name to
represent and the second letter to outline all the opportunities
- I worry about us backing off before we have gotten into the arena. We
ought to ask for the money. Perhaps we come out with a strong letter. This is
what we want. We havenít lost anything. We havenít lost any credibility if we
advocate recreation. We are recreation people and that is where the impact is.
It would make sense to use that money to expand recreations opportunity.
- Maybe a two letter approach. The most important thing is get the person in
there. You are just one of the people on the outside asking. I like the one I
read earlier today with the list. Start with a simple letter to get someone on
there. And for long termÖ.put PRAC on there Get the ordinance amended.
- I speak in support with what Jim said. The reality is we wonít get
everything and it can be damaging to ask for it all, making us appear nieve.
The impression of the first letter is that we want it all. The number one
letter was the shorter verions asking for all the money. Number 2 is the toned
- Jim asked we put another paragraph. Work toward amending.
Someone suggested the PRAC Liaison (Cathy Munoz) could give insight as to
what to do.
- I donít know the make up of this. How it is going to go.
- I may just call her and ask her. I think we could write a nice polite
letter asking a member of the PRAC be on the committee. We ought ot wait and
see if we can have a chance. If we donít get on the committee we can ask for
- discussed the time limitation of the letter
- I was really hoping we could stir the pot. We have friends. I would like
to write a really strong letter. I did go over this draft and figured it was a
nice letter and but could be strengthened a little bit.
- I suggest we use No. 2 draft. Add a paragraph asking for amending the
ordinance. Or at least that PRAC can nominate a member for the board. Jim I
can go over that letter and over the ordinance. ---- we donít feel recreation
is getting enough recognition. Ken and I didnít think we were gonna get all of
it but we are supposed to advocate for recreation.
- Jim King could come back with the third draft asking the Assembly to
include nomination from PRAC. By the next meeting we can approve and send that
letter. Meanwhile, we get the letter off tomorrow, respectfully requesting
that PRAC be given a chair.
- I can come in and sign it.
- Generate the letter tomorrow, nominating Lynn as a member for the public.
Authorize Alex to sign it.
Motion was made Ė Jim seconded it, No objectionÖso ordered.
Jim King will work with Ken Dean on the other letter and everyone will sign
Treadwell Mine Historic Action Plan:
- Last fall the Lands Committee directed a plan for the Treadwell Master
Plan. I told them we had no money or time for that. I have collected
information however. This is a draft for your comment. Do you have any
- Was this discussed in past?
- Yes in Sept before the PRAC for recommendations. There was no public
comment at that time. A list was developed from public comment and concerns
from past history. We havenít done a lot in years. What we want to show, is
what we would like to be capable of doing in improvements if we can keep staff
at this level. It is a much more complex plan than can be done in-house with
- These items we can do with existing staff?
- We arenít addressing concerns of the residents?
- I am addressing park for park.
- We know they will be coming back on us.
- This looks awesome, this is as much as we can ask for. I think it would be
really good if you can take care of this with existing budget. I would go on
record as approving.
- Any objections of Jeffís motion, No objections, Lynn seconded, so
- Would you add Historical Treadwell Park walking tour and maintenance of
trails in the letter to the Public Policy Committee. That would be legitimate
for head tax.
Auke Lake Subdivision Plan
- You have a black and white map. Steve Gilbertson gave to me. It is pretty
major plan. (Kim outlined the area and gave demonstration to Committee) Steve
is working with University. We own part of this land and the University owns
part. In 1996, when finishing the comprehensive plan this area got a lot of
public comments. Because of trails/wildlife/the impact to them. Having
buildings close to trail. Montana creek is extremely close to have bridges
going through. I have some feedback from other communities and put them with
mine. Make sure Steve is aware we want to be very aware of any involvement. We
feel is a very important recreation area and the impacts we want to see in
- Could you identify what is the City and what is the Universityís?
- Most of the Greenbelt area belongs to the City.
- 346 lots. Some on university land some on city land.
- Are they gonna keep the trails. Could we recommend they be lighted trails
so we can use ski trails?
- What is the possibility of supporting the subdivison?
This is a piece of property that the Univiersity could sell the lots and put
money back in the UAS. Park of the Lands Management Plan. (Long term plan)
- Are you asking if we have any objections to it?
- I object totally to it. We are using land too quickly. This bothers
- I am disappointed at such a blantency. I could be on the forefront if they
were on the leading front of including recreation. I want to see what there is
intended for existing trails and making recreation a big part of
- We need more information. I donít see really where the university is gonna
go if it growsÖthey donít have a growth plan. Would they need some of that
land. How about the Raptor center. The Raptor Institute was looking at some of
that land. There are a lot of questions that need to be looked at.
- I would agree with most of what said. That is huge proposed subdivision.
There is not enough information to back such a giant development in the
Greenbelt. I would hope it would be on a smaller scale perhaps with
recreational enhancements. Could not, would not, support at present.
- I agree with Jeff said, about the trails., If it is going to be subdivided
we have to reserve the trails. Enhance so the development doesnít decrease the
value. I donít see this in my lifetime. Or off anyone needing that much space
- What I hear is you really donít approve of this development. If you arenít
comfortable with this, I have enough information to go back and send a letter
to them saying we donít want development in this area, we donít support it
without looking at trails, snow quarters, cross country skiing, lighted
trails, providing park within the subdivision.,
- They should have a forester look at clearing trees up the hill and how it
could flatten the trees in our park. The effects of wind, erosion and things
- The next packet will have letter sent back to Steve Gilbertson.
- INFORMATION ITEMS
- Museum Mission Statement
Read by KimÖ.(you requested it last meeting)
Twin Lakes Letter:
Just after PRACís last meeting, Bob and I attended this meeting. We are
moving forward to replace the slide gates. This isnít a new item but I wanted to
keep you updated. We have requested money to replace them. I would like to see a
meeting of a neighborhood group interested in Twin Lakes. Right now the slide
gates are leaking and we are losing a lot of water. About an inch a day. I will
be responding back to this letter.
- Have you responded to this letter?
Kim Kiefer: Yes, and even the mayor signed it.
- Many of the buildings and improvements could possibly flood out.
Yes, at one of them.
- I donít have a lot to say. If you have any questions I will be glad to
answer them. We try to come forward and let you know we are out there and keep
you up to speed on our participation numbers. Whether they are increasing or
- You know how I am about the pool, is this number correct in FY98.
- No that is a typo, that should read 111,000.
Discussion was held about Capital School being open now for rental and the
cost. (25.00 hour) This pays for staff and janitorial.
- I have some questions about the closure for the lighting.
- The closure was already planned for air handling and we are actually
saving money because the scaffolding will already be up. Last night $193,000
was approved by the Assembly. We found out we were actually below DEC
standard. DEC approved additional staffing until the lighting is in place. We
had no idea it was an issue. I donít know if there are new regulations but
they had a specialist come in. The Pool wonít be drained but it will be
closed. It is scheduled to be closed at that time anyway.
Could we request Engineering to take a look at this.
- The last time was not fault of engineers or contractors. It was not their
fault. We held money held back because the contractors did not do the job they
were contracted to do.
It was asked if we will need all new tiles. Kim said no, some areas are loose
and will be replaced but not all. The kids tiles for the most part will be
- Are we going to be raising cost?
- We talked about this at the last meeting. There will be a change. Last
night the Assembly passed the ordinance for us to charge sales tax on fees and
classes and that means admission too. The pool, everything with the exception
of swimming. When raising the fees this will include the sales tax eliminating
a lot of change making. The extra money taken in will go back into the general
fund and willhelp offset some of the expenses of the museum. We raised
admissions there last year and Mary Pat feels it is too soon to raise them
again. We only started to charge sales tax on rentals the first of the year.
We were supposed to all along but we werenít aware of that. We can start
charging sales tax on everything 30 days from last nightís Assembly meeting.
So April 6 that will come into effect.
Alex Lukshin: Who initiated that?
Kim Kiefer: Actually I was part of it and went to the Assembly.
Lynn Bartlett: Are you giving public notice?
Kim: Yes, we will be. We will be doing something from the Parks and
Alex Lukshin: Do we have any space for youth volley ball?
Kim: 2 years ago there wasnít enough interest to form teams.
Sandi Wagner tried to generate coed volleyball but could not sustain it for
the whole winter.
- And gym space is always an issue.
Alex Lukshin: Thank you Cristi for preparing all this information.
- COMMITTEE REPORTS
- ChAIR REPORT
- DIRECTOR REPORT
We have forwarded proposal to the Assembly for a laborer for ten months. They
will stain and paint the outside of Centennial Hall and when it is raining do
projects on the inside. This will push off the $500.000 that it is going to cost
in a couple of years.
Last night there was a Resolution to approve a transfer of tideland from DNR
to the City. Two areas of park land. We want to assume full responsibility.
- What is happening with Dimond Park.
- There is a committee that will be getting together on the 14/15 of March.
It includes about 50 or 60 people. We are just finishing up on our planning
and when we are finished we will get it to PRAC. It includes a pool, gymnasim,
running track, community meeting rooms, arts and craft rooms and recreational
WE donít want to lose any fields. WE may be cutting some trees for Field #4
and will be doing a PSA on that, letting the public know what is happening and
we are going to be getting phone calls about that.
- Asked about the ball parks by the bypass. Kim told him DOT still has to
work on them to get them up to our standards. We havenít signed off on them
and it may be sometime next year.
A short discussion was held about the Haufman land exchange. Kim said we are
going ahead with an appraiser.
Lynn Bartlett asked about Adair Kennedy. Kim updated her and advised the
timeline has the final work being completed by the beginning of August in time
for football. The lighting on the Adair and Melvin Park is in place and is now
waiting on just the light components to arrive.
Fields are not ready to use.
Lynn Bartlett: Thank you for getting the berm out from in front of the
- We have postponed the Fish Creek Master Plan due to what juist recently
Lynn Bartlett advised she may not be at the next meeting. She will be in
Washington DC from April 27 Ė 4th.
Meeting was adjourned at 8:25pm